Ask them about their primary jobs, which involve teaching high school history (Steve) and English (Andy), and pretty soon you've wandered into mathematics, writing, physiology, nutrition, and even philosophy.
But in the end, all the topics seem to swirl around one thing: picking them up and putting them down.
Andy - five years Steve's junior - is equally dedicated to the tennis shoe gospel and is the assistant cross country coach at Thompson Falls under Sarah Naegeli. He was the Montana men's open champion (ages 18-39) for ultramarathons (Le Grizz 50) in 2007.
Both men graduated from Missoula Sentinel and have been involved in coaching various sports around western Montana for years.
And both have a decidedly deep approach to training young athletes.
Not to mention successful.
One year after the Thompson Falls boys claimed the Class B state cross country team title with Andy rooting them on, the Darby boys pulled off the feat last weekend, edging powerful Manhattan and Glasgow at the University of Montana Golf Course.
“If you asked my kids, they'd probably say I was full of crap,” Steve says. “But I do feel like I have learned some things over the years as far as what motivates kids to work well.”
Just looking at the numbers, it's hard to deny.
Darby has consistently produced some of the finest runners in the state, most notably the long line of Ambrahamsens, which this year featured Sean, a sophomore who finished ninth at state.
Sean's older brother Paul was the 2007 state champion.
This year's state champ was again from Darby - senior Matt Stout - as well as the third-place finisher, junior Seth Garbett.
The girls' winner, meanwhile, was Darby junior Heather Demorest. Demorest follows in the footsteps of Kara DeWalt, who won back-to-back titles in 2005-06.
While natural athletes cycle in and out of Darby and Thompson Falls - improving the chances of each school on a given year - it's clear the brothers have had a significant impact on even average runners. Not only with their thoughtful approach, but with their personal dedication to the sport.
Make that a lifestyle.
“I coach more by feel,” Steve said. “It's almost more of an art. ... I experiment with workouts myself. I compete in masters track, so I'm always working on nutrition. But I do work less by numbers and more by feel.
“That alternative sort of approach is what attracted me to cross country and track in the first place,” he added. “I'm more interested in how kids are feeling, and working with them during their workouts.”
Andy agrees.
“You can see some of the programs that don't have a coach that runs, and it makes a huge difference. When I'm out there running with them, I can get a feel for how a kid is breathing.
“We had a kid as a sophomore who was really struggling. Within a minute and a half of running with him, I actually taught him how to breathe correctly. He was excited; he couldn't believe the difference.”
“It really is a fun part of coaching - getting to know your athletes,” Steve agreed.
Not that mathematics don't come into play. And for both Steve and Andy, it would be hard to ignore numbers.
Their father, Rudy, taught math at the University of Montana for 38 years.
“He drilled numbers into us, drilled being meticulous and precise,” Steve said. “I know I drive my wife crazy because of how anal retentive I am. I weigh myself each morning, for example, and again when I get home from school.”
He's not alone.
“I could go to my chart and tell you how many alcoholic drinks I've had this year, how many lattes I've had,” Andy said.
And this year Andy is compiling a book on all the workouts and times of the 2008 team. That follows on the heels of a more substantial written work on the '07 championship, “Harrier Hawks Fly High.”
“It's dedicated to the runners on that team,” Andy said. “But it's also about bringing respect to the athletes and the sport of cross country.”
With all they have in common, however, Steve and Andy are still brothers. And brothers can be a wee bit competitive.
“I'm the oldest, so I'm probably more in touch with my humanity,” Steve said. “And it's OK if you tell him that.”
“Well, (Steve) is real secretive,” Andy shoots back. “He's always afraid he's going to give something away as far as his training methods. Kinda ridiculous.
“You have to admit, though. He really knows how to work his top kids.”
What a run
The Whitefish boys' soccer team saw its 44-match unbeaten streak come to an end Saturday in Billings when the Bullodgs fell 3-2 to Billings Central in the State A semifinals.
On Wednesday, their coach, O'Brien Byrd, contemplated the run that was and deemed it very satisfactory.
“We had a couple of close calls earlier this year, and I told the guys that at some point this streak would probably end, and when it did they were going to be really disappointed if it was from lack of effort, heart or poor attitude.
“I think they can hold their heads high,” he said. “They gave it their all. The guys fought like lions out there.”
Whitefish won back-to-back state titles, completing two perfect seasons in 2006 and '07.
Central handed Whitefish its first tie in three seasons Sept. 5 when they deadlocked 1-1.
In the semifinal, the Bullodgs dominated the first half, allowing just one shot, while piling up 10.
But that one shot went in, while the Bulldogs had a couple bounce off the crossbar.
“You know when you're a senior that most of the time you're going to end your career with a loss,” Byrd added, “so that was hard for our (nine) guys, but they really had a heck of a run.”
Down but not out
Missoula Sentinel's volleyball team finished in second place at the Missoula Invitational over the weekend.
The result left the Spartans dispirited, but still hopeful.
For one thing, Sentinel acquitted itself well against powerful Helena, which went 14-0 in pool play Friday and was perfect in match play Saturday. The Spartans fell 25-23, 25-16 despite missing two senior starters - right-side hitter Caitlin Gaul and Hope Nelson, one of the team's best passers. The two, it turns out, were busy taking their ACTs.
“The girls were kind of down afterward,” Sentinel coach Patrick Hiller said. “But I was glad to see that. They thought they should have done better (against Helena), but their intensity never dropped off.”
The Spartans now sit at 7-1 in the Western AA, 14-4 overall.
Sentinel's loss to Helena in the tournament was their second to the Bengals this season. Helena won a hard-fought 3-2 decision in Missoula on Sept. 23. The fifth game was bitterly close, 15-13.
“The girls needed to see them again, I needed to see them again,” Hiller said. “Now we know what they want to do to us, and we didn't really have to show them our hand.”
What Helena did was avoid Jennifer Keddy, Sentinel's outstanding 6-foot-4 senior.
“They definitely did a good job of keeping the ball away from her,” Hiller said. “But when two of your eight (starters) are missing, it's tough.”
Sentinel has two big matches this week - at Big Sky on Thursday and Saturday at home against Kalispell.
Then the Spartans face those Bengals again Nov. 4 in Helena.
“We're kind of scared, kind of excited right now,” Hiller said. “We haven't played our best match yet, our signature match to show us where we're at. But I think it's coming.”
Prep Extra scoreboard
Football poll
The Associated Press Top 10 Montana high school football poll, with first-place votes in parentheses, records, rating points and previous rankings:
Class AA
Record Pts Prv
1. Helena Capital (8) 9-0 80 1
2. Billings West 8-1 72 2
3. Great Falls Russell 8-1 64 3
4. Kalispell Flathead 6-3 54 5
5. Helena 6-3 31 4
Others receiving votes: Billings Skyview 13, Missoula Big Sky 6.
Class A
Record Pts Prv
1. Billings Central (8) 9-0 80 1
2. Miles City 8-1 70 2
3. Dillon 7-2 54 T4
4. Frenchtown 7-1 43
5. Havre 7-2 41 T4
Others receiving votes: Polson 20, Corvallis 12.
Class B
Record Pts Prv
1. Huntley Project (8) 8-0 80 1
2. Fairfield 8-0 71 2
3. Glasgow 8-0 65 3
4. Missoula Loyola 7-0 56 4
5. Eureka 6-1 44 7
6. Baker 6-2 35 10
7. Malta 6-2 30 8
8. Shepherd 6-2 23 9
9. Colstrip 7-2 19 5
10. Townsend 6-2 11 6
Others receiving votes: Columbus 4, Fort Benton 1, Florence 1.
Class C
Record Pts Prv
1. Centerville (7) 8-0 79 1
2. Absarokee 8-0 71 2
3. Superior (1) 8-0 66 3
4. Denton 8-0 56 4
5. Twin Bridges 7-1 42 5
6. Scobey 7-1 40 6
7. Wibaux 6-1 35 7
8. Ekalaka 7-1 20 9
9. Chinook 7-1 19 8
10. Joliet 7-1 10 10
Others receiving votes: Sheridan 2.
Football standings
Through Oct. 25
Class AA
League Overall
W L W L
x-Helena Capital 9 0 9 0
x-Billings West 8 1 8 1
x-Great Falls Russell 8 1 8 1
x-Helena 6 3 6 3
x-Kalispell Flathead 6 3 6 3
Great Falls 5 4 5 4
Billings Skyview 5 4 5 4
Missoula Big Sky 5 4 5 4
Missoula Sentinel 4 5 4 5
Bozeman 3 6 3 6
Kalispell Glacier 2 7 2 7
Billings Senior 1 8 1 8
Butte 1 8 1 8
Missoula Hellgate 0 9 0 9
FINAL REGULAR SEASON
Northwestern A
xy-Polson 5 0 7 2
x-Columbia Falls 4 1 5 3
x-Whitefish 3 2 4 5
Libby 2 3 4 5
Ronan 1 4 3 5
Bigfork 0 5 0 8
Southwestern A
xy-Frenchtown 4 1 7 1
x-Dillon 4 1 6 2
x-Corvallis 4 1 7 2
Hamilton 2 3 4 4
Stevensville 1 4 3 6
Anaconda 0 5 0 9
District 6-B
x-Loyola 3 0 7 0
x-Florence 2 1 5 2
Deer Lodge 1 2 1 6
Darby 0 3 1 6
District 7-B
x-Eureka 4 0 6 1
x-Troy 3 1 4 3
Thompson Falls 2 2 5 3
Plains-Hot Springs 1 3 2 6
St. Ignatius 0 4 1 6
Western C
x-Superior 8 0 8 0
x-Twin Bridges 6 1 7 1
x-Victor 5 2 6 2
x-Charlo 4 3 5 3
Sheridan 4 3 5 3
Philipsburg 4 3 4 4
Drummond 4 4 4 4
Lincoln 2 5 2 5
Noxon 2 6 2 6
Arlee 1 6 1 7
Alberton 0 7 0 8
x-clinched playoff berth
y-clinched first-round bye
Playoff pairings
Class A
Byes: Billings Central (9-0), Havre (7-2), Polson (7-2), Frenchtown (7-1)
Saturday
1 p.m. - Whitefish (4-5) at Dillon (6-2)
1 p.m. - Corvallis (6-3) at Columbia Falls (5-3)
1 p.m. - Butte Central (4-5) at Miles City (8-1)
1 p.m. - Hardin (6-3) at Belgrade (7-2)
CLASS B
Friday
7 p.m. - Troy (4-3) at Missoula Loyola (7-0)
Saturday
1 p.m. - Malta (6-2) at Fairfield (8-0)
1 p.m. - Shepherd (6-2) at Baker (6-2)
1 p.m. - Broadus (5-3) at Townsend (6-2)
1 p.m. - Whitehall (6-2) at Huntley Project (8-0)
1 p.m. - Conrad (5-3) at Colstrip (7-2)
1 p.m. - Florence (5-2) at Eureka (6-1)
1 p.m. - Fort Benton (4-4) at Glasgow (8-0)
CLASS C
Saturday
1 p.m. - Culbertson-Bainville (4-4) at Scobey (7-1)
1 p.m. - Wibaux (6-1) at Ekalaka (7-1)
1 p.m. - Harlowton (5-3) at Absarokee (8-0)
1 p.m. - Joliet (7-1) at Denton (8-0)
1 p.m. - Belt (4-4) at Centerville (8-0)
1 p.m. - Charlo (5-3) at Superior (8-0)
1 p.m. - Sunburst (5-3) at Chinook (7-1)
1 p.m. - Victor (6-2) at Twin Bridges (7-1)
6-Man
Saturday
1 p.m. - Belfry (4-4) at West Yellowstone (7-1)
1 p.m. - Dubois, Idaho (5-2) at Roberts (7-1)
1 p.m. - North Star (4-4) at Hysham (8-0)
1 p.m. - Custer-Melstone (5-3) at Reed Point-Rapelje (3-5), at Rapelje
1 p.m. - Big Sandy (3-5) at Bridger (8-0)
1 p.m. - Terry (6-2) at Highwood (6-2)
1 p.m. - Augusta (5-3) at Lambert (7-1)
1 p.m. - Savage (4-4) at Geraldine (8-0)
Volleyball standings
Through matches of Oct. 29
Western AA
Conference Overall
W L W L
Helena 8 1 13 4
Missoula Sentinel 7 1 12 3
Missoula Big Sky 5 4 8 8
Kalispell Glacier 4 4 6 7
Helena Capital 2 6 2 11
Missoula Hellgate 2 7 5 11
Kalispell Flathead 2 7 3 10
Northwestern A
Conference Overall
Libby 6 1 6 3
Bigfork 5 2 7 2
Polson 4 3 7 3
Whitefish 4 3 5 4
Columbia Falls 2 5 3 7
Ronan 0 7 2 10
Southwestern A
Conference Overall
Dillon 6 1 10 3
Anaconda 6 2 8 3
Frenchtown 5 3 8 5
Corvallis 4 3 8 4
Stevensville 1 6 1 11
Hamilton 1 8 3 10
District 6-B
Conference Overall
Loyola 9 0 14 2
Florence 7 2 13 3
Deer Lodge 6 3 8 6
Seeley-Swan 4-5 6-9
Darby 1 8 2 12
Valley Christian 0 9 0 15
District 7-B
Conference Overall
Eureka 9 0 12 4
St. Ignatius 4 3 9 7
T. Falls 3 3 8 5
Troy 3 4 7 8
Plains 0 8 1 12
District 9-C
Conference Overall
Arlee 11 0 16 0
Drummond 6 3 8 4
Philipsburg 6 3 7 6
Alberton 3 6 3 9
Lincoln 2 8 3 10
Victor 1 8 3 12
District 10-C
Conference Overall
Charlo 9 1 12 3
Hot Springs 8 1 12 1
Superior 4 5 7 6
Noxon 4 5 5 11
St. Regis 4 6 7 7
Two Eagle 0 10 1 13
State A soccer playoffs
BOYS
Quarterfinals
Bigfork 1, Corvallis 0
Billings Central 1, Stevensville 0
Whitefish 4, Hamilton 1
Libby 5, Livingston 4, OT
Semifinals
Billings Central 3, Whitefish 2
Libby 3, Bigfork 1
Championship
Saturday, Nov. 1
1 p.m. - Libby (9-3-1) at Billings Central (12-1-1)
GIRLS
Quarterfinals
Billings Central 5, Stevensville 0
Libby 6, Corvallis 0
Hamilton 5, Columbia Falls 4, OT
Whitefish 2, Belgrade 1
Semifinals
Billings Central 3, Libby 2, OT
Whitefish 1, Hamilton 0
Championship
Saturday, Nov. 1
11 a.m. - Whitefish (9-3-2) at Billings Central (11-0-2)
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